Maybe I was a bit sharp in that last post. I am just going to be a little vulnerable here... I am conflicted within myself. On the one hand, I have this fire burning inside me. I have this passion for God's purpose to come forth in and through His people, His church. I have this burning passion for reformation in our day, for liberty and freedom from religious mindsets that Jesus never intended us to labor under, and that aren't bearing much fruit. A passion for right foundations, for Jesus to be the only cornerstone. A passion for His kingdom to expand, to minister to the pain and loneliness of those who don't yet know Him.
And on the other hand, I sometimes feel like the bad guy when I share my convictions. Or at least, I feel mean. I want to "honor what others are doing" as Mark pastorally suggested (thanks, Mark, and good point). But then I think, "Well, I want to honor people. But I can't honor certain things that compromise my convictions." So maybe I should just pipe down and focus on obeying these convictions myself. Yes, definitely... but maybe no.
Yes to living out my convictions, but I can't seem to pipe down. Maybe it's immaturity on my part. Maybe it's impatience. Maybe I'm trying to "fix" something that doesn't belong to me in the first place. Jesus is Lord, and the last thing I want to do is be an agenda-driven person (because then I've just entered into the same religious spirit I'm so adamantly and verbally resisting). *sigh* I'm a recovering Pharisee.
So, anyway, I don't really know what I'm doing... Can you give me grace on the journey as I find my way?
Monday, April 07, 2008
I don't really know what I'm doing
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9 comments:
Personally, I didn't see your last post as sharp at all, just really enthusiastic and emotional.
Given the citation of the Baptist newsletter, though, I'm really curious how you think the ideas you propose should be evaluated and in what timeframe? Maybe it's my interest in numbers, but given the citation of 86 believers to bring one conversion (and I have to ask, "don't these people have kids themselves?"), is there a similar statistic or idea that would lend itself to evaluating the effectiveness of new trends in Christianity?
MB
I didn't see it as sharp either :-)
The discussion is necessary. The lack of passion in most of the church abysmal. Keep on being passionate!
BTW I should clarify about "honouring what others are doing". I think I'd rather have written "honour what the Spirit is doing in others". There's a potential world of difference. I can't honour what comes from the flesh - in fact I have a responsibility to discuss it frankly and with love.
'Revelation' is a stimulating state. It is so different, and so personal, we hardly believe anyone else has experienced it quite like "me". I remember when at the age of thirty, Jesus became REAL to me thorugh revelation. I grew up in the church and had gotten this revelation outside of the church. I determined that the church either didn't really understand the 'salvation experience', or they didn't properly communicate the gospel in a way that changed lives. I assumed that everyone in the church was serving knowledge rather than Jesus and I became very cynical of the church - at least the denomination I was in. I became an 'obnoxious evangelist' for a few years. But in His patience, God began to show me the greater picture and I began to mature. There is much I can share about my journey over the next 25 years. Important to this thought is that I actually came back to the denomination I swore I'd nver be a part of again (never say "Never" to God). It was in serving in this denomination that I began to get this new revelation. This one didn't come in a moment, but it has the same effect. It conflicts. It makes me struggle inside, resisting becoming critical or cynical against my 'faith family' because most of them are drinkers of the old wine and they still say "It is better". BUT ... right within this faith family I have discovered a few that thirst deeply for new wine. We cannot pour it into the old wineskin. It would become divisive and that grieves God. God is beginning to lead us in a path by which we can 'discover', and perhaps influence the old wineskin to at least support the presence of new wine in the community. It is in a very fetal stage right now. The small leadership team is commited to be organic in nature, so we do not have a 'master plan' from which we are working. Right now the plan is the first step. We can see some exciting possibilities ahead, but we dare not place the possibilities into the plan. God usually has a very different process than what we first imagined. It's best to follow Him.
I used to read books for knowledge. I now read them for context. One can only do this if they are actually doing. You place your experience in context of what the author is saying and then see how God could apply the principle in your journey. That way the material become guiding rather than informational. Alan Hirsch wrote “I simply do not believe that we can continue to try and think our way into a new way of acting, but rather we need to act our way into a new way of thinking.” (The Forgotten Ways).
Profound!
Thanks for the kind responses everyone!
MB, I think Barna has done work on kids' ministries (and kids in the church). But a lot of churches are dying literally of old age (the parishioners are dying off), many in my own (very churched) community. So, in many cases, the church isn't even holding those who were born into itself. Jaeson Ma and the campus movement in the US is a good example of fruitful alternatives. Usually when people are looking for "where is it working?", they are doing so from a church-growth grid, so the multiplication of new believers in organic movements is happening under their radar.
Mark, thanks for the encouragement to maintain the passion! :)
Ken, I loved what you said, "God usually has a very different process than what we first imagined. It's best to follow Him." This is so true! Thanks for pointing me back to pure obedience to Jesus.
Sarah,
Have you ever read, "the Churching of America, 1776-2005: Winners and Losers in Our Religious Economy" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark. They are two sociologists who looked at the history of religiosity in America (for lack of a better term). I think you would find the contents very helpful in putting the rise and fall of church movements today in historical context. Because they are writing from the position of agnostics (at least Stark is agnostic), I think they can misunderstand a situation sometimes (especially when it involves doctrine as in Vatican II), but I think the general observations they make about the rise and fall of church groups are both valid and germane to the general discussion going on here. They delve in depth into possible/probable reasons for the decline of "mainline" denominations in multiple eras of American history.
MB
I assume you have heard of Dutch Sheets. Last year I saw him speak and he felt the same way sometimes. He went so far as to say that it's often like that in our pursuit of God because we never know what the next day holds. In fact, he had recently set an ultimatum in his church, amidst organizational complaints, that he didn't know what was going to happen next but if anyone there wanted to follow the Lord they were welcome to stay!
It seems like you have a bit of the prophet in you anyways! Prophets were not always popular for caring about truth, as you know!
MB, thanks for sharing that resource! There's so many books I want to read and so little time on my hands with a toddler underfoot! But Rodney Stark's work is something I would definitely like to explore!
MistaB, Yes, I know of Dutch. I come from a Charismatic background, so I'm familiar with most of those folks in that stream... Wait a tick, so unless I go to Dutch's church, I'm not following the Lord? ;)
Sorry, sometimes I think I've been clear when I really haven't. What I mean about Dutch is that some people who are in his church were complaining about certain things not being well organized. Dutch's response to this was that in his efforts to follow the Lord, organization often changed, to the chagrin of some. It is a reflection of our own life of pursuing God when we come to places where we are tempted to get frustrated with not knowing the next step and feeling out of control. He was addressing the need to attain the spiritual life skill of trusting God and spiritual leaders and being humble and submitted to what we feel are inconveniences while pursuing Him. I know that when truth confronts things in my life, if I have the wrong attitude about it, truth is inconvenient. I have also had times where I felt like I was going crazy trying to discern the word of God in my personal life, so I was frustrated.
I don't mean to say that Dutch owns the corner on truth and that if you don't go to his church you aren't in God's will. That was only a message to those who God originally led to his chuch (assuming they were, indeed, led to that church).
As God has changed me throughout the last few years, I tend to trust leadership more if I see evidence that they genuinely pursue God and care about truth. In the past I was more critical of leadership, an unfortunate quality that I adopted in the workplace. I had this crazy experience with the "outer rim" of charismatics one time at a conference. I saw just about everything that makes worldly people call Christians mentally insane; however, I knew the Spirit was present and that all those 'weirdos' were genuine followers and brothers and sisters to me. So instead of being repulsed, I simply felt the fellowship of the Body of Christ. That was a new and strange experience to me that changed me greatly.
You know when you can tell that the Spirit is in a person by the way they talk? I know some people are good at faking it, but for those who are familiar with the Spirit, we sometimes experience "deep calling out to deep," like when John the Baptist leapt in his mother's womb. We hear certain words and phrases we are familiar with in conversation because they are concepts we only learn through revelation. I trust that the movement you are in is genuine because I sense it in what you write about and your experiences. I just want to make sure you know I don't assume you left the church out of offense and I'm always excited to meet true followers! You know, in a way, this very blog is like the church, just without meeting in person!
MistaB, Thanks so much! Great comments, and it's all cool to hear a bit more of your story. I grew up in a Pentecostal/Charismatic church, and was also touched by the renewal movement, so I can relate to a lot of what you've shared. My exposure to the body of Christ began to grow around the year 2000 as I was fortunate to work with some very anointed people from a variety of backgrounds: Anglicans, Presbyterians, and Charismatics - all from a variety of nations and cultures. It was so wonderful to be able to see a more global picture of the body of Christ. I miss those days, actually...
I also appreciate your clarification on what Dutch was saying. Yes, as we follow Him our outward structures will be impacted as well as our inner lives.
And I do believe we are entering a season of reformation in the body of Christ at large, and it is touching every stream, every denomination. At least, it is touching those who are hungry for Him and are weary of substitutes for His presence (or diet pills instead of the Bread of Life as Heidi Baker says).
Anyway, thanks again. It's nice to get to know you! :)
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